France has one the biggest civil service (related to the amount of citizen) and also the worst and most inefficient in the world. Everything that can be done by one person is done in France by 3-4 and more clerks. As a result nobody really knows what is going on, papers are being lost, communication between the different offices is lousy and the citizen get the worst possible service. People are really very nice in these offices but extremely useless.
here is a little story i have been through.
After 3 years in France you may think i got used to the awfully cumbersome administration and bureaucracy, but I was wrong.
More then a year ago I applied to the MDPH (Maison de Hadicape) to acknowledge me as a handicapped as I am deaf. Of course this procedure included awful lot of paperwork. and when done I brought it to the MDPH, they checked the papers and said its ok. 2 days later I received by mail 3 more papers to fill... they forgot.
After 3 months the MDPH approved of my deafness and sent all the papers to the CAF so I can apply for what they call "allocation". The CAF in return sent all the papers it received from the MDPH back to me.
But... they didn't leave any copy for themselves. after waiting 4 months we contacted the CAF and they said they didn't receive the papers from the MDPH. oh well, there was no use to argue that they had the papers.
So we went there and gave them all the papers. The clerk needed a confirmation from the Securite sociale for how long i have Securite sociale, but the date she needed actually appeared on the paper we gave her.
Oh well, no use to argue, this is France, so we drove to the Securite Sociale where the put a stamp on the same paper and wrote in hand writing what was already typed. We got back to the CAF with the paper and asked the clerk "are you sure you have everything ?"
She said yes, and that I will have an answer in 10 days. 4 days later I got a message from the CAF that they need another paper (my Income Tax declaration - Impot).
Nasty, annoying but, no use to argue this is France. I sent them this paper as well. 10 days later i get an answer that my request was refused. Why ? because The regulation say that I need 30 salaries in France to apply. Hell I wasted one year and ran like crazy between the offices, with thousand of papers, They could actually give me this answer right away.
If these indeed are the regulation then there was absolutely no need to deal with my stuff just tell me: "sorry you can't apply" Well, useless to get mad and nobody to talk too.
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Encore moi, Vous n'habiteriez par hasard le quartier Notre Dame Dumont à Marseille ?. Cherchez quelqu'un qui puisse vous aidez à écrire en Français . Ce serait bienvenue.
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Veritas, j'ai eu la meme réflexion; puis j'ai pensé à ce qu'à dit notre cher président, vous savez, NS, en pleine crise d'identité nationale; ce jour là, j'ai failli repartir en Allemagne. De tout coeur avec vous
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De toutes façons je ne vois pas pourquoi la rédaction accepte des articles en anglais, comme l'a bien stipulé Dominique Dutilloy ! et puis quand on vient dans un pays étranger, comme étranger, ce n'est pas pour le critiquer à longueur d'articles ! Un minimum de descence tout de même ! Je n'ai aucune envie que mon pays devienne comme les US !
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poyr quoi pas anglais c'est la longue de l'union europee c'est la longue intenational. si tu lire francaise seulement voir film americain mais en Francaise et faire l'objection de tout qui ne pas francais c'e ne fair toi un patriot, c'est fair toi un idiot !
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"photographer, artist, designer, technology expert, architect, columnist and writer." no need for CAF !!!! no need of bad music !!!! I am rather fond of Felix Mendelssohn !
I am p...ed off; I have spent the last hours reading most of your articles and I only see a strong critiscism of the french society, administration, politics, aso.
I find it great that you created your job after you lost your job and your cv business is quite creative. It is not easy to find a job in France in the tech business when you are above 40. Other lands are probably more attractive but employment conditions might not be as good.
However, before criticizing the french civil service on a sole experience, you should look 1/ at all the services it provides to the french citizens (I must say , in that sens, it is quite effective); 2 look around; I experienced the american Federal Administration and the level of education is far lower, the results are far slower.
You have no historical or political background to the French political system but you seem as arrogant as extreme right wing.
My conclusion to the few articles I have read is: why the hell are you still in France; you are young and intelligent enough to work in another European country closer to your political background where you will be far happier and you will not need to write in French.
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If you want amitm123, I can put your text into a translator on the Internet, even if the translation won't be correct, french people will try to understand it (I hope !)
... La France a une des plus grandes de la fonction publique (liée à la quantité de citoyen) et aussi les pires et les plus performants au monde. Tout ce qui peut être fait par une seule personne se fait en France par 3-4 et plus commis. Comme résultat, personne ne sait vraiment ce qui se passe, les papiers sont perdus, la communication entre les différents bureaux est minable et le citoyen obtenir le plus mauvais service possible. Les gens sont vraiment très agréable dans ces bureaux, mais extrêmement inutile.
Voici une petite histoire j'ai dû traverser.
Après 3 ans en France, vous mai pense que je suis habitué à l'administration terriblement lourde et la bureaucratie, mais je me trompais.
... Plus il ya un an, puis j'ai appliqué à la MDPH (Maison de Hadicape) à me reconnaître comme un handicap que je suis sourd. Bien entendu, cette procédure inclus énormément de paperasse. et quand c'est fait je l'ai portée à la MDPH, ils ont vérifié les papiers et a déclaré que son ok. 2 jours plus tard j'ai reçu par courrier 3 plus de papiers à remplir ... ils ont oublié.
Après 3 mois, la MDPH a approuvé de ma surdité et envoyé tous les papiers à la CAF pour que je puisse demander ce qu'ils appellent "la répartition". Le CAF en retour envoyé tous les documents qu'elle a reçu de la MDPH de nouveau à moi.
Mais ... ils ne laisse pas de copie pour eux-mêmes. Après une attente de 4 mois nous avons contacté la CAF et ils ont dit qu'ils n'ont pas reçu les documents de la MDPH. Eh bien, il n'y avait aucune utilité pour prétendre avoir les papiers.
Alors nous sommes allés là-bas et leur a donné tous les papiers. Le greffier avait besoin d'une confirmation de la Sécurité sociale pour combien de temps dois-je Sécurité sociale, mais la date dont elle avait besoin effectivement apparue sur le papier que nous lui ai donné.
... Eh bien, pas d'utilisation de faire valoir, c'est la France, donc nous sommes allés à la Sécurité sociale où le mettre un timbre sur le même papier et écrivait à la main écrit ce qui était déjà tapé. Nous sommes revenus à la CAF avec le papier et a demandé au greffier »Etes-vous sûr que vous avez tout?
Elle a dit oui, et que j'aurai une réponse dans les 10 jours. 4 jours plus tard j'ai reçu un message de la CAF dont ils ont besoin d'un autre papier (ma déclaration d'impôt sur le revenu - impôt).
Nasty, gênant, mais, pas d'utilisation de discuter ce qu'est la France. Je leur ai envoyé ce papier. 10 jours plus tard je reçois une réponse que ma demande a été refusée. Pourquoi? où le règlement de dire que j'ai besoin de 30 traitements en France à appliquer. Hell J'ai perdu un an et courait comme un fou entre les bureaux, avec des milliers de papiers, ils pourraient effectivement me donner cette réponse tout de suite.
Si ceux-ci sont en effet le règlement alors il n'y avait aucune nécessité de traiter vos commandes vient de me dire: «Désolé, vous ne pouvez pas appliquer« Eh bien, inutile de se fâcher et personne à qui parler aussi.
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le handicap est une chose , le devoir de réserve en est une autre ! "I only see a strong critiscism of the french society, administration, politics, also." JE VOIS UNE FORTE CRITIQUE DE LA SOCIETE, L'ADMINISTRATION ET DE LA POLITIQUE FRANCAISE AUSSI Ce n'est pas moi qui le dit, c'est AGNESB! alors Amit, Pourquoi pas aller voir du coté de Tel-Aviv, pour voir si c'est mieux avec Tipi Livni ????
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Et bien ! Personnellement je ne vois pas de soucis à ce qu'il critique le mode de fonctionnement français... chacun a son libre arbitre, son opinion... chacun a sa liberté d'expression... Par contre, si les articles soumis pouvaient être écris en français, cela permettrait une meilleure compréhension du texte... Conformons-nous à langue du site !
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Moi non plus, je ne vois pas le problème, Amit a parfaitement le droit de donner son opinion en ce qui concerne le mode de fonctionnement français...
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Voyons, Veritas, vous n'avez pas compris qu'il est incapable d'écrire un article entièrement en français, mais seulement quelques phrases...
Ne plaignez-vous pas, il est sur un site entièrement français et il a sa place parmi nous, bien que vous ne comprenez pas ses articles, il doit être un très bon reporter !
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avant de critiquer un pays , il faut commencer à apprendre sa langue et sa culture ! sinon c'est du mondialisme caractérisé et la standardisation qui va avec ! JE REFUSE CELA ! de toutes façon la pensée qui soutient ses articles est libérale et je la combat !
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Je suis horrifié!...lol...J'ai travaillé deux ans en GB sous Tatcher,puis comme personnel civil dans une base US en Allemagne en 1980...Aujourd'hui et depuis 1982 je bosse pour un de nos grands ministères...je peux dire qu'en comparaison au système anglo-américain les services public qui tentent de gérer les convertures sociales se "décarcassent" bien plus que leurs homologues anglais...et avec quelquefois les moyens du bord...Alors un peu de respect!...Bien sûr Amit est obligé de requèrir aux services de la France pour une couverture sociale pour laquelle sa CB serait peut-être insuffisament créditrice en son propre pays!......Alors, on critique pas...on dit "Merci". Amit!..."France is'nt a bull shit, it's a great country with many great people...France is'nt an american'dream!...France it's first the native country of pleanty philosophies...when you piss off the french bureaucracy, you just piss off on the frenchs workin' there...I want to ask you something, would you do the same to a agent of NYPD?...You're so....!" Bonne nuit à tous, sincèrement Yohann
... "Bien sûr Amit est obligé de requèrir aux services de la France pour une couverture sociale pour laquelle sa CB serait peut-être insuffisament créditrice en son propre pays!......Alors, on critique pas...on dit "Merci"." ET PUIS ON DEMANDE A ROTHSCHILD SI ILS ONT UNE MUTUELLE COMPLEMENTAIRE PAS TROP CHERE .... A HAIFA !
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Amit, I've told you once and I'll tell you again, don't you be so French centric, it happens all around the world not to mention Italy where I live and Israel where I was living before or Soviet Union where I was born You should be pissed off with the system in general which in turn is pretty useless
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Well my dear friend after 3 years here I can tell you for sure and it was confirmed by native Italian that France is worse however not far worse then italy. But even though i am very critics about Israel as well, when you see what happens here Israel is heaven. The civil service in the UK is known to be huge and there are about 60 million english living there, in france the civil service is 3 times bigger !!! until 6 months ago the employment agency which is a bigger pain in the ass required you to go to 3 different offices... they recently bundled two of them (not that you don't need to go to three offices anymore). the only place i have seen more wasted menpower was in India, where they are cheap and disposable.
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Benjamin, David Bien sur Amit a le droit de donner son opinion, et nous de dire qu’on n’est pas d’accord.
Bien sur, ce n’est pas facile pour un handicapé , qui plus est sourd et etranger et ne parlant pas la langue, de se faire aider ou conseiller. La Maison du handicap est l’interface qui peut l’aider dans ses demarches . Une des personnes de cette MDH aurait pu l’aider rapidement. Il est cependant des gens plus faciles à aider que d’autres ; ceux qui ne disent pas systematiquement que les aidants sont nuls et que la fonction publique est nulle.
Amit a droit à une couverture sociale puisqu’il cotise en payant ses charges.
Le probleme, c’est cette façon de generaliser dans tous ses articles :
1 / que le service public est composé de faineants, 4 pour faire le boulot d’un (et surtout le worst and most inefficient in the world, il n’est pas allé en Russie récemment pour le travail ou même aux USA pour faire passer certain materiel) ; qu’il aille en un Pologne, pays european assez bureaucratique
2/ que la police ne fait pas son travail à Marseille
3/ le le centre (Modem) est composé de nuls
4 : que NS est genial mais ne pourra jamais faire de réformes parceque les Français sont nuls (des veaux ?)
5 / France , the most stupid nation in the world
6/ les syndicats foutent la France par terre
7/ fuck FNAC,
Sans plagier NS, à force de lire tant de bullshit, j’ai commencé à me dire ; la France, si tu ne l’aimes pas , tu la quittes. Le travail t’a amené là, il y a du travail sous d’autres cieux.
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agnes my dear, my being handicapped doesn't matter at all. you know i am right in everything I wrote and there is a lot more to come. I am living here and by right but unlike many others I know how it is in other countries. If you could read what i am writing in my Hebrew column you will understand that I am criticizing the country i grew up in as well, in different issues. What would you like me to write about food ? Wine ? Fashion ? yes they are excellent in France. But you know I am right, you want me to pet your heads and say that its delightful, i won't I write about what I see and about what I live. and once again I LIVE HERE BY RIGHT ! if you don't like what i right and prefer to ignore whats going on fine with me because thats what all French do object to any change they prefer to live this way, eventually all the country will be only civil service and go Bancroft. why do you think french scientist prefer USA ? why do you think American companies closing down ? Why do you think the French cars manufacturer prefer to close factories in France rather then in Germany, czech republic or romania ? being ignorant and refusing to acknowledge problems doesn't make you smart. BTW you showed 7 articles i wrote more then 70
When I was working in the States, in the Netherland and in Germany, I always had a few colleagues, self employed, (some of them were british) who kept complaining about the bureaucracy in the nations where they lived; they had forgotten how quicker it was to be handled in those hosting countries than in UK (until they went back to the UK). They were much better at complaining than at working and finally got layed off.
You are a typical software programmer / engineer who thinks that things should work with a certain programme. Reality is different; open your eyes to reality and to the nice things around you.
Your next task should be to write an article about the beauty of Marseille and the smooth functionning of la Maison du Handicap with the help of eleina
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well i was independent all my life i worked in many places and seen a lot of things, no doubt the bureaucracy in France is the worst. as for Marseille, I love the city and if you had access to my facebook page i took thousand of photographs in the city or you can actually access them via my site www.cvide.com as well. Marseilles is a unique city but no way beautiful :-) however i preffer it on any other place in France. as for the MDPH, oh yes they were smooth and efficient but i am still trying to figure out why do they exist (is it only a registration office ? obviously thats all they did).
As you have been working in many places, how was your handicap handled in those places; how long did it take for you to get allowances?
When you say that France Pbulic service is 3 times bigger than the UK civil service, what are your sources (not the OECD)?
Speaking of the NHS, an english friend of mine told me that her 80 years old father died of cancer 2 years ago because he could not get admitted in an hospital : he had to wait 2 years before chirurgical intervention; they even did not help him die without pain.
Some english friends prefered to be hospitalised in France , Germany or Italy even if they had to pay something because of the quality of service. However, I would not dare writing an article on the quality of the NHS based on 6 to 7 personal cases.
from experience, I can be happy anywhere, using all my senses and my nonsense; it is just a frame of mind; and any person I meet is a human being who has the right to mess up sometime, even when she tries to help...
I don't know the missions of MDPH but evrything should be on their website
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Actually the info came from a research and an article done by Radio France several years ago. I have friends working there. And also from the English reports. I was hospitalized and operated in an English hospital in London and yes it was horrible. The French social system is the best, and the medical care is known to be of the highest in the world. As deaf I never did applied to anything anywhere. I didn't even knew why they sent me to the CAF for this, because I didn't ask. I have no complain for the refusal i expected it, my complain is that they could refuse me the first time they saw me and save me all this hours and travels. No doubt France has good things but you cannot ignore that its bureaucracy is cumbersome, ignorant and annoying. In normal countries Social Security, MDPH (and there are more organizations like this) and CAF are all one organization, not 3. Read the above comments and see how aggressive they are, these are the same people that on any reform, suggested and required go down the streets to demonstrate or strike just not to fix anything. I am seeing things in different perspective as I have seen other countries.
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Sorry Amit, but I found your words far more aggressive than any of the comments I have read on this page..
If it had been the only article, fine, anybody has the "right" to get publicly rid off emotional burden from time to time, but it looks like a constant for you.
We French are quite open to critiscism , but we are getting tired of hearing a certain kind of boring old fashion neoliberal capitalism.
And a lot of my foreign coworkers even appreciate the positive aspect of what you call bureaucraty on their job and conditions of life; they are quite a lot in Toulouse where I work in High Tech even if they complain of radar and slow traffic on the Rocade(around 10.000 Brits, 7000 Germans, 15.000 Italians are leaving in Toulouse according to the Mayor).
Life is not easy and handling its way to public services is not easy but once done, it is done. And we are lucky, even thankful, they exist.
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OOH YES : "We French are quite open to critiscism , but we are getting tired of hearing a certain kind of boring old fashion neoliberal capitalism." neoliberal capitalism : AMIT MENDELSOHN, question the Iceland people and have a good plexiglas shield !!!!!!!!!!!
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Veritas, vous prenez la peine de lire mon moment de " defouloir", pour mon dernier jour de vacances avnt le stress de la Nouvelle Année; c'est trop d'honneur!!!
Par contre, C4N est un lieu où on respecte l'anonymat et la vie privée des gens meme quand il est facile de faire des recoupements.
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veritas who is talking about neo liberal ? i am talking about the good of the citizen, to make the system more efficient. you want to keep the situation as it is ? i am sure you have been stuck in the bureaucracy no less then i did. You like to fill hundred times the Impot forms ? do you like to stand in 3 lines in the Securite Social ? to you like to visit 3 offices in different part of the city in order to perform a single simple task ? do you like to try to understand (and to fail) the government websites ? do you like to have an archive of thousand official papers ? is that neo liberal ? why do you refer the English language to neo liberalism ? if i am a neo liberal then you are a middle age conservative.
i am here more then 3 years and the bureaucracy isn't done !! thats one thing. Asking the system to be more efficient to the citizens or whoever live in France isn't neo liberalism its a normal requirement of normal civil service. Efficiency and liberalism are not the same. open your eyes and watch the news and look where the conservativeness led France. No more foreign money is invested in France, the hi-tech industry is ridiculous compared to any other country in the western world. The majority of the French have no idea even how to operate their computers. i am not trying to offend the French i am telling a story. I am not sure why you are defending your civil service, but you know its cumbersome and in efficient. Maybe like Veritas you hear the English and you refer it to America. So i will say it aloud. I PREFER THE FRENCH INEFFICIENCY ANYTIME ON USA ! But it doesn't mean the inefficiency should prevail, the citizen should and must complain and try to change it for their own good (your own good as well !)
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en France et sur internet il y au moins 50 avatars qui portent mon nom et dans le monde ...je ne vous en parle pas ! c'est parce que mon ailleul en 1660 portait le prénom d' Abraham et qu'il était huguenot ! et vous savez les protestants ont ete amenés à voyager...à cause des persécutions . ...comme les juifs.
I am usually not boasting about french industry and french High Tech , but it does not look as bad in Toulouse as what you are telling us; despite the efforts of N. Sarkosy to destroy French research, and competitiveness (which is due to its creativity more than its price); some international companies are still putting some money on our telecom, aerospace, pharmaceutical industries, and even creating joint ventures with us.
I fill my "Impots" form on line as well as my parents , 79 years old, who are not that commputer illiterate as you may tell. We even get high speed links in remote places. Only money prevents the gap in computer comptentency; but our government tends to take money from the poorest to give it to the rich; and we have not yet found a Robin Wood to protect the poor. And speak to the fifty years old British living in Toulouse or in other places abroadof M Thatcher; they will all say that she destroyed the British Industry and the Health system
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oh yes you do have a hi-tech industry but its still considered low level and the penetration if the internet is the lowest in europe. infrastructure rarely reach small vilages in the middle of france. some of your cellular providers (like SFR for example) does not cover all the country (not even urban areas). and even if you do have foreign investment and joint venture its nothing compared to the rest of the western world. What your esteem president is doing is exactly what happening all over the world feeding the riches (assuming they pay more taxes which was proved to be wrong all over the world). Margaret Tatcher destroyed the unions and created a healthier economy in the UK, not without Faults for sure (unemployment, poverty and destruction of almost any manufaturing industry). but her successors didn't know what to do with it and destroyed it all totally. france on the other hand hadn't been through a productive reforms for more then 50 years, because you always object. Because the union hold the whole nation by the balls. but mainly because most French prefer to live in the old world and refuse to acknowledge the world is moving on. Thats one of the reasons so many French does not speak the international language and the official language of the european union they helped to form.
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but why are you making a comparison ? i am not saying one place is better then the other, i say there is a need to change things, for the good of the citizens. don't you agree ? does it matter to you that it can be worse when you know it can be better ?
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Amit...Je trouve dommage que vous déversiez tant de fiel sur un pays qui vous acceuille...en utilisant la fenêtre ouverte d'un site voué à l'intelligence...Mais comme la Liberté d'expession est un droit offert à tous, même aux ingrats et aux fourbes j'ai l'immense honneur de vous signaler que c'est avec un bonheur infini que je "zapperai" vos articles, non pas par dégout...quoique!...mais juste pour ne pas faire monter ma tension bêtement...pour la faire monter je préfère d'autres choses beaucoup plus douces!...lol... Salut Amit, au divin Plaisir de ne plus vous lire.Yohann PS: "If you think than pissing off is funny so next time piss off yourself and tell us how you enjoy..."
This country didn't welcome me, i have the right to be here just like you have the right to be in my country of citizenship. however while in Germany it would take you a short while i was running around with papers for 3 years without medical insurance that i has full rights to have. France is no longer alone its part of the European union. and anyway i wrote something that everyone agree on and this is a fact The French administration is too much the French bureaucracy is horrible. You believe only native French have to right to say so ?
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WHAT IS YOUR NATIONALITY ? are you a Mossad agent, Amit? "Margaret Tatcher destroyed the unions and created a healthier economy in the UK" EN GRANDE BRETAGNE , LES TRAINS ETAIENT POURRIS DE SON TEMPS ! She (Margaret) was often drunked with whisky !!!!!!!!!! The royal scotland Bank is public now ! Be awakened , Amit !
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i have two nationalities. Israeli and German (EU). Yes the french train system is better then the English (of course when they are not in strike (greve). The royal bank of scotland was always public. and i have no idea where you lived from the time margret tatcher was english prime minister until the crisis in the middle there were 4 other prime minister and the English economy prospered. and today It crashed like the rest of the world, i don't have to remind you the number that the un employment rate in france is going up like crazy.
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veritas I do it once a week ! in the bible language with reader more intelligent then you are that can identify legitimate criticism and understand its important.
Je me demandais d'où venaient vos infos; je comprends tout maintenant; c'est le style du Bild-Zeitung, ein ehrloses Klatschblatt, eine üble Kloake. Il m'est arrivé de le lire pour rire pendant mes pauses jadis tant l'info est grossiere. Infinitely worse than french journalism
Being half german, you should know that the German industry survived the crisis, only beacause of a strong relationship between the unions and the employers ; german salaries are 30 % above French or british salaries for that reason.
"Bureaucraty" is easier in France than in many other countries, because I never had a problem with it (I am trying to adopt your way of thinking). To be just and right, the French criticize more their politicians than their public services (unlike inthe States or in Germany);
I do not try to compare with other countries but I have lived and worked abroad for 25 years (more than in france); I also have friends of different nationalities; I recently contacted 5 very good friends in England, all engineers in the high tech (software development, QA and testing) between 44 and 50 years old and all unemployed since a year, with excellent references. By the way, without a diploma, and with your age, you would not get a job in Germany. Nothing aggressive from me , just boredom ... You have all rights , even to write bullsh..
Apart from criticizing what you don't know, why don't you try to do something useful like an NGO project
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i will start with the last.. I will take ANY job i can" as for hi-tech in the age of 40 and above you will not find a job unless you have been in the job for a long time before. This industry is soul sucker and 35 is old there. as for the rest, criticism should be on any level, when i write my column to the israeli magazine I criticize civil service, politician, judges, religion, anything. because if something is wrong you should say it out aloud. one thing you don't realize about civil service: civil service have to be paid, it is paid from taxes i.e from citizens. Now go to Alsace go to the supermarket in Saint Louis check the prices of FOOD, then cross the bridge to Germany (100 meters walking) and get into the supermarket in the German side. The prices of everything is 20-50% cheaper !! and you will hear mostly French. The French pay dearly for this huge public service that they keep defending, but they blame the government and therefore prevent any cuts, but then they complain about the taxes. as for the unions the union in France are different then the unions everywhere because they are not professional (if the SNCF is on strike the management have to deal with 8 different unions its not logical) SNCF is public service, Radio France is public service they all are and they always get what they want, and guess who is paying you and now me also, the tax payers... I figure out you are an IT professional, like most people in the profession (and i managed very big development teams you see the small picture, and the immediate consequences but not the big picture and the slow rotting of the whole French economy which is actually hidden quite well inside the whole thing that is called the EU economy.
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and agnes... few things i must say: 1. you are one of the more intelligent people in met here (and i met a lot) 2. your english is great and you are not afraid of using it 3. its a pleasure to have a discussion with you.
You should be pissed off with the system in general which in turn is pretty useless